Sukhoi-30 vz F-22
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Sukhoi-30 vz F-22
Friday, September 16, 2005 (5:37 PM)

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Posted by
sabertooth (1)
Edit
Sukhoi-30 vz F-22
I am no expert on military aircraft, but would like to open up a discussion. I would like to know what everyone has to say about the sukhoi-30s that India acquired, vs the american F-16's and the much touted F-22s. Here in the US, they claim that the F-22s have no match and will not have any match for decades. What do you have to say?

Posted by
yochaiTB (2)
Edit
RE: Sukhoi-30 vz F-22
Posted: September 16, 2005 (10:08 PM)
its truth, ther is no mach for the F-22 in ther will be no mach for along time one the reason is thet u.s waste so mach mony on the plain tahet no cantry in the world can aford to make a mach for him(we tolking abut tens of billions of dolr) its make him so strong that no one can mach for him for along tim.
the su-30, or any ather plane in the world is not geting near to him not clos a litelbit

Posted by
Rebate (67)
Edit
RE: Sukhoi-30 vz F-22
Posted: September 17, 2005 (1:18 PM)
I think Sukhoi-30 an' F-22 should not equalize, because Sukhoi-30 in-fighting of course win with their manoeuvrability, I repeat in-fighting.

Posted by
skopro (2)
Edit
RE: Sukhoi-30 vz F-22
Posted: September 19, 2005 (10:03 PM)
well there were recent articleson the indian su30's versus US main front line fighter today the f-15 which concluded that the f15 was no match for the su in India's configuration(avionics),the f-15's lost in more than 90% of A-to-A engaugments.however one could speculate that this could have been done by the air force to push through to congress the need for the f-22 to be bought(congress pulled the money for the f22 because it was too expensive to buy)so with this new data aquired from these excersises congress would have no choice but buy the f22.political thinking at its best huh?!.of course this couldbe BS,but if u thik about it could very well be true.If the SU was really better than the f15 than the US has a problem,because China is odering the SU MKI with a much more advanced array of avionics which could deffinetly pose a serious threat to the US.in respec,yes the F22 is a supirior fighter ,but its not a mass employed fighter.it will not replace the f15 altoghter,if it does it will not be for another 10 years .there will only be a select few of these aircraft around to do the ork,maybe 100 or so if even thatcould be wrong.these things are not cheap they come in at about 170$ million a piece compared to the 86$ million price tag of a new f15(export figures).so if u look at it the SU is more bang for the buck.against the f16 i dont think it will really stand a chance,not even in close combat,dogfighting.i have seen SU's do things i didnt know were possible in an aircraft,dont get me wrong i love the f16 and i have been wanting to fly it since i was a kid,but to be realistic they dont stand a chance unless u have some world class amazing pilot in that 16.even with the new block 52+ f16 radar thats being equiped on the new 16's they only give a 30% increase in detection of enm aircraft.now the block52+ if i heard right will emlpoy the new off-bore sight targeting system (just like the russian) which is basicly a headmounted targeting system,u look at it u can kill it with about 40 degrees of "off the nose" capability,and it will use the aim9X (which i dont know a little) supposidly it will be able to do a 180 and and shoot u down(i will believe it when i see it) so that can be a dangerous thing ,but ur gonna have to get close enough which i dont think will happen.anyway i can go on and on about this but im gonna leave u with my 2 cents worth of knowledge.:)

Posted by
Sukhoy (488)
Edit
RE: Sukhoi-30 vz F-22
Posted: September 20, 2005 (7:21 AM)
AIM-9x is still a prototype, but R-73 is back from 90'. Much more, russians will upgrade R-73, and remember about K-172 (400Km vs. large aircraft).
R-73 is the best missile ever seen with IR seeker.

Russia is more advance in missile tech.

Su-30KI (not MKI) vs F-15C was 3 to 1 so there was 9 to 1 score. But surelly Su-30 is better than F-15, F-16 and F-18.

I believe Su-30MKI and Su-35BM are the best from 4 and 4++ generation. Some russians stuff said Su-35 BM is 5- .


Posted by
skopro (2)
Edit
RE: Sukhoi-30 vz F-22
Posted: September 20, 2005 (6:30 PM)
oh and sukhoy it was the MKI not the KI check the link

http://www.centurychina.com/plaboard/archive/276111.shtml

and this talk of that the f15k would out fight the su i dont think so.it has nowhere close to the agility that the su has if thats what ur talking about,yes they have new radar and such but when will we see these inprovments take place,the su has been in service for a while now,besides the f15k is gonna cost u some $80M if not more those su are in the 40's range.thats basicly half the price.also those MKI are basicly barebone to the ones that the Chinese are gonna get.we will see how the f15 wouldplay up,IMHO i would take a SU over an f15.


Posted by
Sukhoy (488)
Edit
RE: Sukhoi-30 vz F-22
Posted: September 21, 2005 (9:41 AM)
The exercise brought together leading fighter combat aircraft and aircrew and ground crew of both air forces. The USAF flew in F-15Cs, while the IAF was represented by Mirage 2000, Su-30K, MiG-27s and MiG-21 (upgraded).
from
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Images/Special/CopeIndia/iafindex.html

India not allowed USAF to see MKI variant.
You believe all what are written in all forums from Internet?
I want to see official declaration about involvement af Su-30MKI in India Cope 2004.

So, R-77E has a range greater than 31miles - about 160Km has R-77M variant, and earlier R-77 has 90Km, far greater than your 31miles.
R-77M has up to 160Km!
R-73 (first variant) has 30Km range.
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/r73.htm
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/r77.htm

AMARAAM has only 50-70 km (30-45 miles) range.
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/amraam.htm
AIM-9 has 18 km (9.7 nm) range
AIM-9x (prototype) has like R-73 later variant 40Km range (but R-73 is in production from 90' and AIM-9X will be maybe after 5 years or earlier).
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/sidinder.htm

So, I want to be honest in this forum. Some of us no more write on this forum because your fanatism and because you are not fair (some of you, not all). If you post an information you must have your source.

Again about missiles - ranges differs very much because altitude target, altitude of your aircraft, radar or IR signature, wind, etc.


Posted by
Sukhoy (488)
Edit
RE: Sukhoi-30 vz F-22
Posted: September 22, 2005 (7:27 AM)
Yes, it wasn't fair to fight in exercises outnumbered and/or without your tech. I knew it, indians put that condition in that exercises.
What about exercises from France where indians Su-30s were meet with F-16s and french aircraft? Any info?

About F-22, I read at once (I don't remember where) F-22 has 2D TVC but has less agility than SU with TVC. Overall russians are more advanced in TVC tech than any other country.

What does Su-30/35/37 only X-31 does. NASA try with F-15 with canards and TVC but but are only at the begining.
I believe what said one russian pilot - Su-37 can recover from almost any altitude with any speed. Su-37 has not any AOA limit due to its TVC and canards.
I saw some video with su from www.patricksaviation.com - you must see!
I have a movie where Su-30 do a turn with 180 degree (fly ahead with tail) and then recovered without lose altitude.
In one of my seen movie a SU-37 do 360degreeX2 in about 2-3 seconds. Maybe that movie is from patrick's site (I don't remember exacly).
I saw at TV cobra made by F-22. It was to slowly, and was slowly because of F-22 capability not because pilot want it.

F-22 is closely in maneuvering to SU-30/35/37 but SU are better.

F-22 has a greater advance - its radar - AGP-77. But can carry missiles with max range at about 100Km. Radar can detect large target from about 460Km - that data are from US.

Remember MiG-31BM with Zaslon can detect large target from almost 400Km but MiG-31BM are in service from some years unlike F-22. MiG-31 has R-33/R-37 with range in ideal condition about 185Km.
Think about N014 radar - from MiG 1.42/1.44. is PESA one with detection range about 400KM. Suddently development was stop due to lake of money. Some of its tech are used in N011M (Bars) witch is instaled in SU-30MKI.
Finaly remember K-172 - range about 400Km.

I put ACCENT in that - all ranges differ due to conditions (many conditions).


Posted by
fulcrum (6)
Edit
RE: Sukhoi-30 vz F-22
Posted: October 1, 2005 (12:44 PM)
wow,

glad to see that there are still so many supporters of russian tech still alive. i had almost given up on this highly americanized world.

The first thing to be noted is that never believe an american or a brit, especially when it comes to aircraft. The brits claimed that the hawk could pull about 7g, but a high speed sharp turn, as sharp as possible registered only 5.5 on the g-meter, coz 7g was what u can pull only in a highly simulated environment where the conditions are as ideal as it can be.

The same moderation must be applied to the F/A 22. Remember the facts and figures that are made public come from the factory, which has the aircraft loaded into virtual reality - where u can get any environment u like. In practical, those figures are way beyond imposible.

Compare these to Russians who build their craft the old fashioned way using hard copy blueprints and all. The figures u get from them are real world coz the only way to get them is to atcually fly the aircraft. These can even be pushed beyond their limits when the push comes to shove. The hawk would probably break up at 7.01g.

The russians are just more practical, if u come to think of it.


Posted by
Sukhoy (488)
Edit
RE: Sukhoi-30 vz F-22
Posted: October 6, 2005 (9:25 AM)
No matter if I am or not in russian side. I want to see and to tell to another the truth. Many of us are manipulated by mass-media where USAF are seen as THE BEST.

I want to be more realists.


Posted by
JSF_fan (48)
Edit
RE: Sukhoi-30 vz F-22
Posted: November 5, 2005 (4:27 AM)
The fact is F-22 has stealth the su-27,su-30, su-33, su-34. su-35 and su-37 don't. The Russian aircraft probably feature reduced radar and infra red cross signature etc. You also have to remember that the F-22 has supercruise which means supersonic speed without sucking up fuel. Yes the sukhoi fighters will be more manuverable but the sukhoi fighter will never see the F-22 anyway due to stealth. In other worlds all the manuverability is wasted. A Russian pilot would stand as much chance in a mig-21 as they sould in an su-37.
Although the F-22 is the best figher aircraft to actually go into service (have to say this becuase of what the Mig 1.42/1.44 could have offered). It is flawwed becuase of its high price.
In terms of strike you have to take into account that the F-22 does have external pylons and a FB-22 is being considered so I would give it to the F-22 has well. In all honestly i think the SU-35 going to Russian service is pathetic compared to the F-22 and the F-35. I believe due to stealth the F-35 is also capable of killing Su-35s very easily.
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