f-22 vs su-37
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f-22 vs su-37
Thursday, January 27, 2005 (9:04 PM)

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Posted by
ytsejammer (11)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: February 6, 2005 (2:14 PM)
I didn't do a thorough search, so I really don't know how reliable the following site is, but a quick search revealed.

From http://www.vectorsite.net/avsu272.html#m4

"As far as the tale about the carrier-based trainer went, the Sukhoi organization had considered a two-seat Su-27 trainer with side-by-side seating, beginning work on the "T-10KM2" in the late 1980s. This variant actually emerged a decade later as a prototype for the "Su-27KUB" two seat trainer, which is essentially an Su-27K / Su-33 carrier-based fighter -- with folding wings, arresting hook, and so on -- mated with a side-by-side cockpit.

The initial prototype was a conversion of an Su-27K / Su-33 and performed its first flight on 29 April 1999, with Pugachev and Sergey Melnikov at the controls. It went on to perform trials on a ground-based ski-jump beginning in September. The prototype featured slightly enlarged wings and tail surfaces.

A side-by-side cockpit arrangement was regarded as more effective for carrier operations training, as it gives the instructor a better view than he would have as a back-seater, an important consideration for "hairy" carrier landings. As the initial Su-27IB / Su-32 prototype was basically a modified Su-27UB with a side-by-side cockpit with few other optimizations, in a sense it could be regarded as having been a demonstrator for the Su-27KUB as well, and Simonov was probably just sounding out interest in the concept, or at the very least trying to keep the T-10KM2 effort alive.

In side profile, the Su-27KUB looks deceptively like a single-seater Su-27, as it retains the standard large radome and the IRST in front of the canopy, through in top profile it more resembles the Su-32 with the side-by-side cockpit. Prospects for production are actually fair, with the type showing potential not merely for training, but in strike, reconnaissance, countermeasures, and tanker roles as well. It has even been considered as a possible airborne early warning aircraft, carrying an electronically steered radar antenna in a spine canoe fairing.

Development of the Su-27KUB is continuing, with a second prototype built and both machines being used to evaluate improved avionics and other kit. There has also been talk of developing an "Su-30K2" variant that features the same two-seat aircraft configuration but with a ground based airframe lacking folding wings, arresting gear, and so on."

I guess I got it wrong. It looks like it was based on the Su-27K, they just incorporated the side-by-side seating from the Su-34.


Posted by
Karakondsul (49)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: February 7, 2005 (2:38 AM)
Yeah, Su-33UB or Su-27KUB has been build in 1998-1999 and was presented on MAKS99 Airshow. It is "parallel seater" just like Su-32, but is capable to land and take off from a carrier. It has the hook, the system for blind landing and up-to-date optico-electronic equipment. Ytsejammer wrote the else, that is known about the aircraft. The interesting is that specialists expected that this plane will have the same future as many russian planes, that are expecting brighter days, when they will go in serial production. But after reading the military program until 2008. Except Su-27SM, Su-25SM, Su-24M2, Mi-28, Mi-24PM, Tu-160 and other modernisation programs , there was a special place for the Su-33UB, at the end of the 2010's, it means in two-three years there is a possibility that there will be small production of nearly 10 such aircrafts, that will be used with Su-33 (they will be modernised by the program Su-27SM). But it is not sure. Time will show.

Posted by
freebie (27)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: February 7, 2005 (5:26 PM)
There is a very large amount of Su-30's in service in Russia. Only 1 is a TVC aircraft (prototype from Indian contract).

Posted by
Karakondsul (49)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: February 8, 2005 (2:48 AM)
The shape of Su-32 is more like a duck (not round nose). () Su-33UB has the same nose (round) just like Su-27 family aircrafts but with the small difference that the cockpit is more widen and two pilots can seat side by side, just like in the cockpit of Su-24 or Su-32. But even though I am not sure if there is free space between the seats of the both pilots in the cockpit of Su-33UB, because there is such big free space in the cockpit of Su-32. But officially nobody from russian side mentioned about the space between the seats of the crew.

Posted by
ytsejammer (11)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: February 8, 2005 (4:58 PM)
Best I could find at the moment.

http://airbase.ru/hangar/russia/soukhoi/su/33/kub/img/su33kub-ash-2.jpg


Posted by
Karakondsul (49)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: February 9, 2005 (6:16 AM)
The bad thing is that there aren't any pictures of Su-33UB from the inside of the cockpit.

Posted by
Raycharles (1)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: February 13, 2005 (12:36 PM)
None of you know anything at all about the F-22 or what it can or cant do. Its idiotic to compare it to an ex-soviet show aircraft that was built as a flying test bed. Incidentally all of you who bost of the soviets superiority in thrust vectoring are forgetting that the US first tried it more than 20 years before the russians. It was not embraced because any advantage it would give in combat is completely nulled by the incredible amount of maintenance the engines and airframe require.
If your always fixing an aircraft its not flying that means 0 combat effectiveness.

Posted by
Sukhoy (488)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: February 13, 2005 (5:34 PM)
You said: "None of you know anything at all about the F-22 or what it can or cant do."

So you know much more than anybody of us? Personnaly I don't know very much about F-22. But you know anything about russians aircraft?
If you are, for example, an US pilot who fly on F-22, you must know something about F-22 (I think not all). So you don't know if your plane is better than russians aircraft (I mean Su-35 and of course PAK FA).

I think if soviets made an aircraft better than F-15 in 80', now russians can make one better than F-22 even with less money.

Am I right?


Posted by
freebie (27)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: February 13, 2005 (8:06 PM)
You are right. This guy doesn't even know the correct designation for his beloved F/a-22. If he can't at least show it that much respect in a debate where he simply chooses to flame others knowledge then he much be pretty low on the intellectual scale. I bet this guy has watched a little too much Top Gun and thinks Tom Cruise is all the USA needs to beat the Mig-28 and yes my sarcasm was intended.

Now for a reality check; The F/a-22 uses airframe stealth which dramatically reduces its flying characteristics (see maneouverability) when compared to modern US aircraft such as the F-16. Airframe stealth only works in certain weather conditions, at certain speeds and when the radar searching for it is on a particular angle from it. Therefore if it is raining, the F/a-22 needs to go faster then Mach 1 or the plane searching for it isn't directly behind or in front then it is not really stealth.

Russia on the other hand has developed some world class ECM suites, radar packages and non-radar tracking means to counter stealth or give them advantages in BVR (Beyond Visual Range) combat. One of the newest developments is the stealth generators that can be plugged onto existed highly maneouvreable aircraft. These aircraft can be more stealthy then an F/a-22 and carry a larger payload, further and still perform better in the resulting dog-fight.

Also; just so you know. I am not an 'ignorant Russian' but an educated Australian. I am a developer in a PC game about a conflict between the USA and Russia and I have a degree in International Studies were I majored in Strategic Studies and spent most of my time building a case against my governments purchase of the F-35.


Posted by
Karakondsul (49)
Edit
RE: f-22 vs su-37
Posted: February 14, 2005 (2:46 AM)
Oh, dear poor Raycharles, you even don't deserve that nickname. Do you know anything about Suknoi family aircrafts, you have really really very much to read, I am very disappionted by people like you. Got no words. You better read about the joint flights between US and Indian F-15, F-16, Su-30 (even Indian Su-30 wasn't Su-30MKI variant and Indian air force got right not to show it to US eyes). You think F/A-22 is the most, the best, the ha-ha. Do you know that the so by you beloved F/A-22 is little bit old. The project is at the end of the 80's. Tell us more about the accident with the F/A-22 that happened two months ago.
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